Wiped cam 86 B2000 2.0l

Sockeyehigh

1986 B2000 with only 14,000 miles on rebuilt motor and new head, Weber carb, headers.

Anyone have any ideas on how/why my cam has ALL the lobes wiped? Just one or two is one thing but ALL? Maybe the runout is bad? Also they are all off center as well leading me to believe maybe that’s the issue.

Oil: 10-15psi idle 30-40 cruising
Never overheated but did get semi hot a few times. Ran great, outside of a noise that cropped up that I could not figure out (turned out to be this). I replaced TB, tensioner and water pump and just finished a tune on it trying to eliminate what sounded like an idler bearing going bad. I’ve been hunting down a minor drivability issue for awhile, looks like I found it. It always ran good and most people would have never noticed but something was just not quite right.

I adjusted the valves numerous times this past summer trying to reduce the usual tic as well as normal maintenance. Never too tight, but looking at the cam it would seem like they were. I did have some trouble getting them adjusted and this possibly tells me why, but not why they were ALL wiped. When I pulled the valve cover last night to replace the gasket after my last adjustment in September, I grabbed a couple rockers just to feel movement and all was fine until… I noticed the lobes.

How the hell did my truck run so good with lobes soo bad? And outside of runout what would cause every damn lobe to be almost the same? Again, they were not too tight and I double checked my feeler gauges, even used brass feeler gauge this summer trying to eliminate anything giving me a false gap.

Oil pressure was fine, a tad low at idle but nothing I was worried about. There was oil sitting in the head where the lobes would dip into so I don’t think it’s an oiling problem but I could be wrong.

I’m a seasoned mechanic and owned a shop back in the day, but this has me stumped.

MazdaMitch

You say you adjusted the valves numerous times trying to get the noise out.

Is this all original?
The reason I ask is that if all of this is second hand to you and you dont know what the previous owner did, what has happened before is someone may swap the head or just the valve train and go from hydraulic lifters to the mechanical lifters that are adjustable, and in doing so they leave the 2.2 cam in place.
With the mechanical valve train you must use the 2.0 cam else you will never adjust the taping out of it. Some overdo the adjustment to get the noise out and a cam wipe 'could' happen.
You DID say you have a 1986 B2000 and that should be all mechanical setup, but how do you know it's not a 2.2 block with a mechanical valve train swap? That's why I ask if its all original or has it been tampered with.

Here is a video I did on adjusting the valve lash.
https://youtu.be/t8Fej8e5CsE?si=7hSWP4SAHZe7mVnT

Mrcrowley

MazdaMitch so if you go with the hydraulic lifters you need to chance to the 2.0 cam? Is that correct

Axel-Breaker-Earl

Yes....answer the questions that Mitch has asked please. Also, do you have any pics of the engine rebuild......as it was being rebuilt? Who rebuilt the engine......you or someone else?
The B2000 uses a different head gasket than the B2200......are you certain that the correct HG was used in the rebuild? The B2000 HG has a restriction built into the HG where the oil from the engine is sent up to the cylinder head.......the B2200 HG does NOT have a restriction built into the HG.......the required restriction is in the top of the block at the oil passage opening that sends the oil up to the cylinder head.

Sockeyehigh

Hey Guys!

Mitch and Alex, I replied to the post with info and pics, but apparently it did not post? I used my phone like I did the first time, either way probably user error.

A lot has happened since I thought I replied and today (Dec 4th) so I did not know it didn’t post as I was preoccupied with this. Sorry guys.
Here are pics from 2015 when built and yesterday.

Block - FE
Head - New Mechanical (eBay stamped “Cific St”)
I pulled motor and had machine work done.
I do not know if it was original but seemed like it.
Head bought fully assembled.
Machine shop assembled bottom end.
I did the rest.

This went from a fun project to a painful, expensive and stressful adventure in WTF did the machine shop do to my block 😳 and what did I do or not do. Literally got lucky that I found the lobe issue, and in an attempt to make it drivable until I could do another rebuild by using a donor truck cam, I discovered a lot more.

I pulled the engine and started the resurrection of the truck on the 12 of January, 2015. I put 10,902 miles on it since I fired it up in April of 2015. Machine shop bored 20, honed mains, rods, decked block (per my request) and I had planned on assembling it myself. Well, I had problems with some of their work so I took it back and paid them, again, to correct the issues and assemble the short block along with oil pump. I did the rest. Head came fully assembled and not sure if the company I got it from put in the correct cam (mechanical). What I do know is the work that shop did is definitely part of the problem, but with the massive lobe wear, I would expect a lot of wear on everything and yield lower compression, yet 175lbs of compression in each cylinder back in September.

Mains and rod bearings have some pitting, cylinder walls have scoring as do the pistons skirts.

I knew about the oil restrictor on the head gasket and that was my first thought because I had to call quite a few people to find out if it stays in or comes out and I could not remember which way I went! Haha! Getting old sucks.

So, now I am waiting on parts, money is unbelievably tight so a swap or something fun is not an option.

This is where I am now! And check out the head pics. Top one is mine and bottom one is off donor, looks like the bottom one is a 2.2? Casting is different, so is combustion chamber and numbers on it are F8-7. Mine has no casting numbers.

Sockeyehigh

Oh, I should add that I could tell the head on donor rig had been either replaced or rebuilt as the rocker arms and assembly looked brand new.

My theory after disassembly of my engine and further inspection of both, the donor rig is 2.2 head they converted to mechanical adjusters, but no idea on the cam being changed or correct but it was def used. My head has “Cific St” stamped on it and looks like a correct 2.0

MazdaMitch

Info I have collected over the years on casting numbers.

F8-1 ----- 86 B2000
F8-2 -----86 B2000
F8-3 -----87 B2200
F8-5 -----87 B2200
F8-14 ----- 88 & 89 B2200
F8-10------88 B2200
F8-16----- Late 90's B2200
F8-17----- 91 B2200

MazdaMitch

In this video I get a pretty new head off a truck in the Junkyard a pull-a-part, and its the recasted head from cifs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YWnkLroAI8

Might be a decent head, I just put it on a shelf but it did have some casting defects on the first sparkplug hole, and I have read about this on facebook from other users too.

Sockeyehigh

MazdaMitch

Hi Mitch!
I noticed some casting issues as well, but mine were minor and the spark plug holes were already ground to accept a socket.

Taking it to a machine shop locally, the owner had an 87 Mazda for 10yrs and we had a good laugh about the fun of these trucks and the headaches. I’m having it inspected and machined. I’ll let you know what he says about those heads and any casting or integrity issues he finds.

I’ve made a couple videos but have not put them up.

Thanks!

Edwin

kz6fittycent

Mrcrowley yes, since the profiles are going to be different.

Mrcrowley

kz6fittycent ok thanks I'm not doing it but information is king on these trucks so thanks

MazdaMitch

Look through the FAQ the details are in there

https://mazdaminitruckin.com/faq/

Mrcrowley

MazdaMitch I just ask so I would know I'm not doin it

Sockeyehigh

Here is a pic of what’s stamped on the two heads. Donor truck has F8 - 7 stamped (no 1 before the 7).

Mine says Cific St.

Funny, I ordered a new cam from Cific yesterday without knowing that it is the same company that made the head. Got the cam through Amazon, but seller is Cific. I called and asked if the cam was for mechanical rockers and the guy said it is for both, when I told him they are not the same he said it was for mechanical…sooo…we will see, I told him I’d be returning it if it is not correct for my application.

This has been a very strange experience, trying to find correct parts nowadays is not easy and there’s a lot of junk being made.

Appreciate the help, I’ll keep adding info that might help others, or someone may spot something I am doing wrong.

Mitch, great job. Finding the Facebook group and now the forum has helped me get through some pretty rough times. Another guy mentioned something similar. I’ve lost everything (divorce, deaths, work) and trying to pay bills, keep my house and fix my only rig has come down to selling personal items to keep the lights on. The truck belongs to my doggle Mayhem, so I can’t sell it.

Thanks for the help Mitch and all you guys, it’s refreshing to chat about turning wrenches without some jackass making fun of something or just starting crap because they can hide behind their computer.

Axel-Breaker-Earl

Edwin.....I certainly hope things get better soon for you. It sucks that life can throw you some bad stuff occasionally, but hang in there and it will get better!

On the camshaft.......I have actually used both cams in a mechanical rocker head in the past. The 2.0 cam is better suited for the mech. rocker arms and therefore is quieter (no ticking) but if you do use the 2.2 cam with the mech. rocker arms, I have found that if you tighten the valve lash to .009" instead of the .012" lash that Mazda states, it can quiet the ticking up some.
I believe the difference in the two cams is basically the "ramps" of the cam lobes.......the total lift is about the same I would think, but I have not measured them each.......one day I need to do this.

The factory 2.0 cam should have a "FE" cast into it like the pic below......

I'm not sure if I have a good pic like this for the 2.2 cam......but I will look and if I do, add it here.

Sockeyehigh

Thanks Axel! It just keeps getting better…

I took my head to machine shop for advice and direction Friday. The second he looked, he grabbed it and said this is a new casting and we tore it down. I bought it new and loaded, and it turns out the valve springs were installed upside down by the company that made it (Cific St)…same place new cam is coming from….which tells me why everything went to hell in less than 11k miles and why I was chasing my tail with tuning.

I never noticed that when I got it. Valve stems were sticking and I had some pitting on the valve seats (not closing completely).

I could buy another head, but I decided to have him machine it, pressure test, grind valves and seats, rebuild it the right way. Cam should be here tomorrow and I can take it to him to inspect as well.

I have put so much work into this….I put a new heater core in last winter, and when I was taking a bell housing bolt off, I bumped and broke it and now interior comes out for the 4th time.

I got a LUK clutch kit from Rock last week and the throw out bearing (clutch release bearing) is defective AND the brand new water pump I installed one week before I found the cam issue, also bad bearing, have what feels like flat spots. Water pump was part of my second Duralast kit, first one the tensioner was shit. I always look at what parts are in kits now.

I am glad I looked at the clutch kit. I wanted to check the Pilot bearing and was going to go OEM anyway, but to take the release bearing out of its sealed bag to find it bad is just another example of throw away mentality and probably a return they just said screw it and shipped back out.

So, I spent time ordering things separately this weekend from brands I know (continental, gates, OEM for release bearing and pilot).

Any of us that have dealt with aftermarket parts know how things are these days. We went from not really having to worry about them as much or knowing exactly what we were getting back in the 80-90’s to:
CHECK EVERY TOOL OR PART YOU BUY.

On my 3rd bore gauge from Amazon. 90% of their tools and parts are the same and just rebranded. It’s a crap shoot to get a non-name brand item that is in specs.

Hope to have it back together next weekend…

Thanks again! Appreciate your help!

MazdaMitch

The springs, you can flip flop em all day every day. There is no upside down to them that I can remember and I've done a few. If it could be messed up that easily, surely I would have done it.

BTW all heads now are cast heads by "someone" you won't get a new one from Mazda and have not been able to for years.

MazdaMitch

The head I use in my red truck is from Engine Tech from RockAuto.

Some may laugh but EngineTech is the same ones that make Hastings Rings and King bearing so there is that.

MazdaMitch

Oh one more thing, duralast = dura crap.
If you want a good water pump kit go Gates.

I would get the entire timing belt tensioner and water pump kit.
Well worth it.

Do stuff one time and not over and over.

Axel-Breaker-Earl

As Mazda Mitch has said.......I don't believe that the valve springs have a top or bottom. Could the machinist be talking about something else?

I am wondering if the previous camshaft was produced correctly when it comes to hardening it. The reason I say this is that it has happened to others before.......not for one of these Mazda's engines though.......it was on a different forum where I read it.

NOW, that said, I did tear a fairly new (10,000 miles or so) rebuilt Jasper Engines, B2200 engine down that had issues, and the CRANKSHAFT that was used in that engine had NOT been properly hardened!

Here are some pictures of it.......keep in mind that the engine bearings are of a much softer material than the crankshaft is......supposedly!

The culprit....

Crank Thrust bearing journal surface

The Rod journal bearing surfaces were heavily worn also but since they are a full surface width bearing, they didn't "show" without measuring them, like the mains did since one half of those are grooved for the oil flow.

Some of the bearing halves.....

NONE of the bearing had "Spun"........this was NOT damage from lack of oil supply.......the crank was "Soft" and it was not produced correctly.